| 2007 | 2008 | ||||||
| Price: | 10.94 | EPS | |||||
| Shares Out. (in M): | 0 | P/E | |||||
| Market Cap (in $M): | 330 | P/FCF | |||||
| Net Debt (in $M): | 0 | EBIT | 0 | 0 | |||
| TEV ($): | 0 | TEV/EBIT | |||||
| Subject | Not Readible |
| Entry | 01/01/2008 04:37 PM |
| Member | neo628 |
| Do you mind posting a readably copy with formatting in the comments? Thanks | |
| Subject | Yowsa! |
| Entry | 01/09/2008 08:49 AM |
| Member | jm671 |
| So much for limited downside risk. Any updated thoughts on the thesis and valn? | |
| Subject | Digging deeper in to PRXI |
| Entry | 01/09/2008 12:45 PM |
| Member | ben111 |
| One interesting feature of Value Investors Club is that we have plenty of short sellers that short big liquid stocks here. But we appear to have fewer short sellers on the board that short smaller less liquid stocks like Premier Exhibitions. As a result, we will often hear the bull thesis on a stock like this without hearing the bear thesis, since the bears on these small companies don't post. I have no position in this. What the bears are saying is that the right way to measure this is on the basis of "same store sales" - essentially, an exhibition opens, it has great attendance at first and then it drops off over time. The shorts say the following - a few years ago whenever a krispy kreme opened up there were lines of people out the door - a real frenzy. momentum investors came in because of this. Only by tracking the same store sales of Krispy kreme was it possible to see that the economics fall off dramatically over time. They say PRXI is the same - huge lines of people when a show first opens, followed by a decline just like Krispy Kreme's From your write up "The shorts argue that Bodies business is in decline because the “revenues per exhibition day” declined in Q3" Now the shorts argue that many people called up management to discuss this metric over the past few months and management would refuse to discuss it since some members of management were selling stock. Management did not want anyone to look at this metric. In your write up you say "The company doesn’t even use this metric themselves so it probably doesn’t mean anything" The shorts argue that just because the company TELLS you that they don't use that metric doesn't mean they are telling you the truth. The shorts also argue that even if the company doesn't use that metric, the metric may be worth looking at anyway, in an effort to get to the truth of the matter. Let's have a free and open and honest discussion on this board. Many many people on this board have had conversations with management. Has management ever deliberately misled any of us, or have they simply tried to steer attention away from metrics they didn't want us to look at? The key issue on the table is, has management been honest with us - bulls, bears, and people who have not yet formed an opinion? Can we trust management? Let's figure this out together | |
| Subject | Jim |
| Entry | 01/09/2008 08:15 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| There is a backstop of Titanic assets and cash which is around $6. Q3 numbers were good, q4 numbers were obviously very weak. Our suspicion is that they are being overly conservative in their guidance. We are digging deeper in it, but intial reaction is that we like the story today more than yesterday at this valuation. The explaination for the quarter seem intially plausible and with the backdrop of assets and cash, any reasonble level of exectution could result in a very good return. Long term potentially a great return. | |
| Subject | Bruin |
| Entry | 01/10/2008 10:10 AM |
| Member | zzz007 |
| Can you give me your quick back of the envelope on the $6/shr Titanic assets + cash? Cash, I guess is obvious. More interested in the Titanic asset valn. Thanks. | |
| Subject | Reply to Ben |
| Entry | 01/11/2008 02:15 PM |
| Member | bentley883 |
| Ben In light of your question and in the spirit of the club, I want to add my two cents to the discussion on PRXI. Our firm is highly interested in the name from an investment perspective. We had a significant position in the stock, which we sold a few months ago, and currently are sitting on the side monitoring the situation closely. The reason we sold our position was two fold; management and valuation. Regarding your question on management, we had some uneaslyness on how professionally the company was managed. Some of the things we felt uneasy with were the lack of a full time CFO in Atlanta and the number of earnings surprises (even before Wednesday) that have occurred over the last 2-3 years. What also made us uneasy was that it was very difficult to reach management when we needed to. Despite the fact that we had a fairly healthy position in the stock, we never try to abuse this or take up too much of management’s time. However, the situation had gotten progressively worse. For example, we repeatly requested to meet with Arnie when he was in town multiple times and after more than a year of trying, we gave up. In addition, we would leave multiple messages for the CFO to call us over several months and finally received a call back from the PR guy. He could not answer most of our questions and said he would try to have the CFO call us back (which he never did). This lack of access to management raised many questions in our minds, including how open management was and if there were things they did not want to discuss. While I am not suggesting management lied to us or was untruthful, with significant questions outstanding, we felt we did not have adequate information to feel comfortable holding the stock any longer. Regarding valuation, another reason we sold, was that the stock had reached our price target and was less a true value stock anymore (like when we first purchased it) and more of a growth or at least a GARP stock, with a different set of expectations. At present, while the stock has come down significantly and the valuation has become much more interesting, we do not believe it is overly cheap by our definition. On current earnings and adding all the non-cash charges back into cash flow, the EV/FCF yield of about 9% is not compelling in our opinion. Based on managements latest guidance the FCF trends in the current quarter are flat to down from Q3 levels. In addition the new CEO repeatedly stated on the last conference call how many of the new initiatives would take time to have a meaningful impact. Thus, we are not comfortable modeling any significant growth into our projections in order to maintain a healthy margin of safety (especially given the recent uncertainty and questions raised last quarter). In order to show a more attractive double digit EV/FCF yield you would have to assume a fair amount of growth returning to the story. As the timing and magnitude of this is somewhat uncertain, I do not want to pay for this growth at this time (especially given some of the issues raised last quarter). Thus, we are still inclined to sit on the side and monitor the stock and wait for a more favorable opportunity to invest in the company. I add these thoughts to contribute to the discussion and point out that these are our just our opinions based upon our investment style. I recognize and welcome the fact that others may have a different opinion and that’s what makes a market. Hope these comments are helpful Bentley | |
| Subject | Re: Reply to Ben |
| Entry | 01/12/2008 01:12 PM |
| Member | max685 |
| Great comments, Bentley! Thanks for adding them to the discussion. | |
| Subject | ZZZ |
| Entry | 01/14/2008 10:57 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. They own 1800 artifacts outright which they could do what they want with, have salvor in possession rights/lean that were appraised at $110mm and $30mm in cash. I roughly assume the salvor artifacts are worth $70mm taking a 30% discount and their own artifacts are worth $100mm plus cash. I think assigning a specific value is obviously difficult but there are some real assets there that should provide a valuation backdrop. | |
| Subject | Bentley |
| Entry | 01/14/2008 11:11 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| Thanks for your comments-you make fair points and we have always said the inexperience of the CFO was a concern. We are pleased that he is being replaced and they have engaged Korn Ferry to do a search for a real CFO. As we have had multiple calls with management over the past week and have rebuilt our models, I think the story is not that much different than before they reported the quarter. Q3 was very good and met our expectations. It seems as if Arnie has delegated Bodies venue selection to Tom Zeller who didn't have the expertise to make these decisions as Arnie was consummed with hiring Bruce and other responsibilities. When asked Bruce told us at the begining of his tenure that the site selection process would be different and he wouldn't have gone to suburban sites such as Framingham. It seems now that the sites selection and calendar is being managed directly by Bruce and it seens unlikely they will make these sort of errors again. Also, Bruce has told me that he has personally spent many, many hours going over the financals and their 08 guidance will be very attainable when announced. He has only been on the job for 90 days and I think now the company is being cleaned up and many of the issues you have alluded to have been fixed. As a side, he has always called us back within half a day. We think the base business can do about .80 with modest contributions from incremental bodies shows. There is still all of the upside of Luxor Vegas (additional 5k rooms with no Jam and additional concepts), merchandise and sponsorships, new exhibitions which we should hear about by 3.1, Pier A potential and most importantly large international markets which they will be going to with Jam. They are supposed to meet with Jam tomorrow to discuss potential venues. While we think you make fair points, we feel that the valuation is attractive here while there is blood in the streets and the "easy money" will be from here to 10/11. | |
| Subject | Frankie-buyback |
| Entry | 01/14/2008 11:13 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| Frankie, good points. The only other comment I would add to is they seem very motivated to buy back stock here and they can turn a negative into somewhat of a positive by reducing shares at what we think is a very attractive valuation. | |
| Subject | Options / dilution |
| Entry | 01/15/2008 01:05 PM |
| Member | ben111 |
| I think the comments by the bulls here are very very perceptive. I appreciate the new information they provided here. Can everyone comment on dilution here? When i build my model for the next few years, should i assume that 3% of the outstanding shares will be given away in options each year or more like 7% This dilution from options is a major input in my model - i mean i see many companies where more than half the upside is given away in the form of options. What can i expect here? | |
| Subject | Ben |
| Entry | 01/15/2008 05:54 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| Most of the options that were granted were to Eskowitz and the Board. By all accounts Eskowitz it top shelf so probably a good allocation of human capital. I would suspect that on go-foward basis option grants will be modest, althought I don't have an estimate. Fully dilluted the share count is 33.5mm-I am pretty sure they wil buy at least the 1mm shares that are authorized and hopefully more. | |
| Subject | class action lawsuit |
| Entry | 02/21/2008 02:07 PM |
| Member | ben111 |
| I would like to hear both the longs and the shorts comment on legal issues / class action lawsuit The Chinese government has obviously rounded up plenty of its political opponents and executed them. There is plenty of evidence that organs have been harvested from executed political prisoners in China. As of today, there is no proof that the bodies used by PRXI are harvested from executed political prisoners. However, if i understand correctly, the family members of the executed political prisoners have the standing to file a class action lawsuit against PRXI in the USA - The shorts are saying that if PRXI loses just one of these class action lawsuits the stock goes to zero Again, I am not saying the shorts are right, but i would like to hear the bulls on this stock handicap the various legal outcomes - lose a class action suit, settle a class action suit, etc. Seems like we really need to explore this carefully - juries in the USA are likely to be sympathetic to the families of the executed prisoners | |
| Subject | RE: RE: class action lawsuit |
| Entry | 02/22/2008 01:30 PM |
| Member | ben111 |
| I am not an expert and would like an atty to comment - however what i have heard is that the lawyers for the families will make the case that PRXI benefitted from murder - no one has accused PRXI of deliberately ordering murders - no one has even accused PRXI if causing murders accidentally - the key issue is, did PRXI benefit from murders, and should they have to disgorge all the profits that resulted from those murders to the families of the victims. Again, can a lawyer comment please | |
| Subject | Lawsuit/Valuation |
| Entry | 02/26/2008 11:29 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| This lawsuit sounds completely bogus and seems like a ploy to keep the stock down so the shorts can get out. At this point the stock is screamingly cheap trading at cash and an extremely conservative estimate of the artifacts they own outright and the ones they have salvor-in-possession rights. You get the Bodies business, 2 new exhibitions, sponsorships, merchandise, food and beverge and possibly Pier A all for free. Worst case scenario they can just use the 7 sets of bodies they have consent on. | |
| Subject | Lawsuit/Valuation |
| Entry | 02/26/2008 11:29 PM |
| Member | bruin821 |
| This lawsuit sounds completely bogus and seems like a ploy to keep the stock down so the shorts can get out. At this point the stock is screamingly cheap trading at cash and an extremely conservative estimate of the artifacts they own outright and the ones they have salvor-in-possession rights. You get the Bodies business, 2 new exhibitions, sponsorships, merchandise, food and beverge and possibly Pier A all for free. Worst case scenario they can just use the 7 sets of bodies they have consent on. | |
| Subject | Just saw the stockprice |
| Entry | 11/27/2008 03:30 AM |
| Member | dj927 |
| Anyone care to give an update on what happened? | |